Do Facts Even Matter?


By freak80   Follow   Sun, 25 Mar 2012, 10:58pm   12,490 views   91 comments
In Corning NY 14830   Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

I can't help but wonder if the following statement is true:

"In religion and politics, facts don't matter. People believe what they WANT to believe, IN SPITE of the facts."

I'm not the first person to make this observation.

I'm guilty of "wanting to believe" too.

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  1. uomo_senza_nome


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    1   9:57pm Mon 26 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike  

    Honest Abe says

    but why is it they are the only network to break revelant news stories when the mainstream media either ignores the story or buries it on page 23?

    Honest Abe - you are destroying any ounce of credibility that you may have by defending FOX News.

  2. iwog


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    2   2:54pm Wed 28 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Protected  

    rootvg says

    In this country, we use wealth as a primary measure of success. By that measure, you have to conclude Fox News has been VERY successful in accomplishing the goals Rupert Murdoch set out for it.

    We do? The United States damn near became a communist country because Robber Barons of the industrial revolution were making living conditions nearly intolerable. Wealth was used as a primary measure of how sick our country was.

    It was only the intervention of Republican Teddy Roosevelt that saved this country from an armed revolt. In fact there were actual wars between unions and corporations conducted with firearms.

    Propaganda is never a measure of anything other than dishonesty and corruption. Newscorp is a national disgrace.

  3. oliverks1


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    3   1:03pm Thu 29 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike  

    Honest Abe says

    What caused the housing bubble was: ... and (2) Carter's Community Investment Act, aided, abetted and exacerbated by Clinton to completely gut lending requirements and standards.

    If this is the cause of the housing bubble, then how does it explain the following facts:

    1) The UK housing bubble
    2) The Australian housing bubble
    3) The Canadian housing bubble
    4) The Spanish housing bubble
    5) The Greek housing bubble
    6) The Fact that Deutche bank ended up as the largest landowner in Cleveland

    How do these have anything to do with Community Investment Act? I don't disagree that government(s) were a significant problem, but this one detail, doesn't seems to have any positive or negative correlation to the problem. I might suggest you evaluate your own biases. I suggest the following three might be blinding you

    A) You hate democrats and think everything is their fault
    B) Nothing the government can do is good
    C) You believe the poor and colored folks are the cause of America's problems.

    Once you accept your biases, it will help you understand the world better.

    P.S. I can agree that interest rates were probably part of the problem. But notice just part of the problem, there were other factors that complicated things.

  4. marcus


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    4   10:34pm Mon 26 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    uomo_senza_nome says

    you are destroying any ounce of credibility that you may have

    uomo, I see you aren't very familiar with Abe. Credibility ?

  5. uomo_senza_nome


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    5   11:28am Tue 27 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    thomas.wong1986 says

    its no mystery that FOX outranks in the number of viewers over CNN or MSNBC.

    Paraphrased: it's no mystery that there are a lot of ignorant, dumbed down and propaganda-believing people in America.

    marcus says

    uomo, I see you aren't very familiar with Abe.

    leoj707 says

    I was unaware that here was an ounce of credibility there to destroy.

    LOL, which is why I conditionally qualified it with "may have".

    I think he does have one valid point at least, which is that corruption in governance is at the heart of several problems in this country. But the few valid points that he has is surrounded with so many dishonest lies, it's hard to see clearly the credible points that he states.

  6. Honest Abe


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    6   9:38am Wed 28 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    Iwog, the news is not necessarily the truth. You need to read between the lies. Truth is treason in the empire of lies. What would our country be like if we had leaders with integrity?

    Would the government have stolen the silver out of our coinage?
    Would our government steal from its own citizens via inflation?Would our government spend more money than it takes in, passing the bill on to other generations?
    Would our government wage endless war and participate in empire building?
    Would our government murder its own citizens?
    Would our government violate its own set of laws with impunity?

    These are the things that most people are upset about, but you seem to support the decisions of government regardless how harmful, irresponsible or toxic they may be.

  7. uomo_senza_nome


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    7   5:16pm Wed 28 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    iwog says

    instead of making a rational argument for why profitability means anything.

    I don't even know why these guys are even bothering to construct rational arguments to defend FOX News.

    If we say FOX News is total BS, then their argument is CNN/MSNBC is also propaganda. Does that make FOX News any less evil?

    The other argument is profitability, which does not even have a shade of credibility. Why would a profitable news source be necessarily credible?

    These guys really need to suspend their neo-conservative bias and watch Jon Stewart or Colbert. The fact that American politics is total parody has given these 2 guys a full-time job.

    Then they'd start to see that reality does indeed have a liberal bias ;).

  8. omgbacon


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    8   3:30pm Fri 30 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    oliverks1 says

    How do these have anything to do with Community Investment Act?

    Don't underestimate how EVIL Carter and Clinton truly are. It's a massive conspiracy engineered to give Habitat for Humanity more business.

  9. iwog


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    9   9:29am Sat 31 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    CaptainShuddup says

    Obama Sucks Ass = Fact!

    This is the limit of neocon critical thinking ability.

  10. iwog


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    10   10:34am Tue 3 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Protected  

    Cloud says

    Here you go Leo. As I said even the most ardent partisan reporters and editor understand why you need 2 newspapers in any city. The most honest will tell you those they work for vote Democrat and tend to be liberal.

    Journalists tend to be better educated and more knowledgeable about history and government than the general public. Most have passports and have been out of the country and understand context first hand.

    Sooooooo......reality has a well known left wing bias, or maybe you're so skewed to the right that everything looks liberal?

  11. iwog


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    11   10:40am Tue 3 Apr 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Protected  

    rootvg says

    The journalists I knew at the Dallas Morning News weren't skewed to the left at all. Even the Democrats down there are conservative.

    I'm sure that's true and was part of my point. The people accusing the media of a left wing bias are viewing things from a warped perspective.

    It also makes a useful non-argument to chase away any compelling articles or opinion pieces.

    Media: "The world is a sphere."
    Neocon: "Naw, that's just left wing bias."

  12. freak80


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    12   1:09am Tue 27 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Anyone ever see the movie "Idiocracy"? Where all the "news" mainly involves naked women and monster trucks?

  13. Dan8267


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    13   12:11am Wed 28 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    uomo_senza_nome says

    Paraphrased: it's no mystery that there are a lot of ignorant, dumbed down and propaganda-believing people in America.

    Case in point, those on this site who still try to argue that Obama was born in Kenya and that his birth certificate is fake.

    http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1210506#comment-811764

  14. iwog


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    14   4:31am Wed 28 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected  

    Honest Abe says

    The fast and furious, the New Black Panthers intimidating voters in Philly, B.J. Clintons indiscretions in the White House are several that come to mind.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45208205/ns/politics-more_politics/t/fast-furious-holder-expresses-regret-border-agents-death/#.T3L1v9Vc1fs

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504564_162-20010581-504564.html

    I'm not even going to bother looking for articles about Clinton because we both know all networks covered the Monica Lewinsky scandal to death.

    Do you have any examples that aren't total fabricated bullshit on your part?

  15. iwog


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    15   6:51am Wed 28 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected  

    Honest Abe says

    As I said, I'm not a fan of FOX News - but come on. 10 X's less coverage on mainstreet media is not covering up or concealing the news? Give me a break.

    Really? 10 times because some stupid propaganda brainwashing website that you pulled up on Google says so?

    Even if true, all it proves is that Newscorp, acting as the propaganda wing of the Republican party, has decided to beat this dead horse into a fine slurry (even when there's no new developments) because people like you will eat it up and claim the rest of the media is biased.

    How about this: You're wrong until you can actually provide real support for your assertions. As far as the general media giving Bill Clinton a pass on his White House blow jobs, I think that's one of the most blind ignorant lies you've ever uttered here. The media.....ALL media.....was saturated with it.

  16. Zakrajshek


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    16   12:14pm Wed 28 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Try to not watch the news. I know it is very hard to resist because it is addictive in a way. But it's all propaganda, lies, and junk, and I believe it's very toxic to our health. I think the 24 hour news mania is one of the main reasons so many people are depressed and take anti- depressants. Who cares what all those pundits think? Your opinion is more valid than any of theirs because you're not a rotten paid shill.
    Cancel cable if you dare and buy a season of Kung Fu to watch. You'll be much happier I think.

  17. iwog


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    17   2:56pm Wed 28 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected  

    Honest Abe says

    What caused the housing bubble was: (1) the Fed's manipulation of interest rates to an artificially low rate, and (2) Carter's Community Investment Act, aided, abetted and exacerbated by Clinton to completely gut lending requirements and standards.

    You've been utterly destroyed on this point more times than I can remember. You always disappear, then reappear weeks later with the same corrupt ignorant argument.

    You're wrong, you've been repeatedly proven wrong, and your inability to learn has been showcased yet again.

    What caused the housing bubble was the free market and the disconnect between the source of cash and the ultimate destination of cash. This was ONLY possible in an unregulated free market..........the same free market you worship.

  18. freak80


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    18   5:00pm Wed 28 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    And don't forget the Battle of Homestead, PA:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Strike

  19. iwog


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    19   5:08pm Wed 28 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected  

    rootvg says

    Did you know MSNBC hasn't earned its cost of capital for years?

    Really? Maybe they are going for accuracy instead of playing to hatred, prejudice, and greed. Before cable, a news department was considered a necessary evil to lend legitimacy to a network and was almost always a justifiable loss on the books.

    It sounds like you're rooting for your team instead of making a rational argument for why profitability means anything. It certianly doesn't mean that Newscorp is anything more than a pathetic outlet for right-wing sewage.

    Cigarette companies are very profitable. So is the mob.

  20. Auntiegrav


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    20   6:07am Thu 29 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    uomo_senza_nome says

    Then they'd start to see that reality does indeed have a liberal bias ;).

    Actually, the bias comes from diversity and sustainability and random moderation. Nature abhors a Spike (specialization) as much as it abhors a vacuum. Conservatism wants to preserve some kind of comfort zone by forcing everything out of that zone that it doesn't like and to accumulate all of the resources it can. Nature has myriad ways of cutting off the spikes and filling in holes. This broadening of connections and diversifying of resources and dependency (liberal bias) is frightening to the ego of anyone. So frightening, that we assign nature's random behaviors to an intentional god so that we can stop trying to find reasons for things that are simply not reasonable.
    "In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue.
    In 1493, he stole everything he could see."
    The Arawak version, where Columbus changes from a Liberal to a Conservative.

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