WatchI'm sure this question has cropped up on Patrick.net from time to time, but a cursory search through the archives just now shed little light on the subject for me. I've done some research both locally and online, but wanted to tap the veritable brain trust here on Patrick.net for some input/advice/abuse, etc.
I never thought I would consider building, and only decided to look into this option after two years of picking over the fancifully priced inventory here in central Austin (thanks, California!). Housing stock here consists of either former grad student flops, 2/1 granny shacks with tottering carports or overgrown, hyper-average 70's suburban SFHs in either as-is condition or with that cheap Ikea neo-modern Madmen treatment I can't stand. Flipping is also red hot here, so I'm competing with that crowd as well, which makes buying a lot and building (either now or in a year or two) more attractive. What's more, most of these homes are outfitted in various ways that are totally superfluous to any of my basic needs, so I'd be paying a premium for fixtures I'd only end up ripping out. I need a rectilinear box with space for my tools and my collections. I don't even want a dishwasher. I work from home, so I require a place that is conducive to the workspace/live space dynamic, but without the fabulousness of LOFT style living.
I recently found a half acre lot for sale, centrally located at a not-insane and very-nearly-decent price, along with a builder with excellent references and decent prices ($70-100 sq ft). For the price of the lot and the ballpark figure the builder furnished me with, a finished home (minus permits/soil tests/land clearing/grading) would come in well under, or, worst case, right AT what a comparative existing structure in the same area would cost me to buy. The only snag is that it's a sloping lot and whatever I might choose to build there would be hanging off a bluff.
Anyway, I would especially appreciate commentary from anyone who's built a place in the last five - seven years; what sorts of stumbling blocks did you encounter? Anything from the loan process to dealing with a contractor who goes over budget to the travails of clearing a scraggly, sloping lot.
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We built in 2004/05. Raw land equidistant from my job and my wife's, which meant an hour commute for each of us. At the time it was a sensible choice (we felt) as we had lived in the area for 10 years and all our friends were there.
We were very conservative and built a 1 bedroom 1 bath (hired a good architect and got a wonderful design...) -- our thinking was that we didn't need more, and we didn't want to build something that needed two salaries to pay for. We don't have kids and are past the point where we might have them.
As soon as we signed the papers and broke ground, her company laid everyone off and closed shop. My job remains stable, however.
After 4 years there, and some retraining for her, she found work in the same direction as my job as a contractor. She travels everyday to a different place, at least 1 hour each way. Eventually we decided living in the house would not work, as there was simply not enough time left in the day or energy in our bodies after work and commuting to enjoy the house. So, we moved out and now live closer to our jobs. As everyone knows, the market has since tanked and the market price for our house is less than half of what it cost to improve the land and build the house. I don't think we will live long enough to recoup our investment. The house is rented, by the way, although it doesn't quite cover the mortgage.
I enjoyed many aspects of designing and building the house (we had a great architect and contractor) but even with a fine team you will have times when you kick yourself for ever having decided to do such a stupid thing as build a house. And we came in under budget!
One thing to consider about building something that is perfect for you -- it will not be very marketable. The market wants 3/2 with a 2 car garage. Period. Anything else appeals to a much smaller segment, and the more idiosyncratic the design the fewer people who will be interested. You MUST seriously factor in the aggregate statistics on houses and how americans use them (we tend to move every 7 years or something like that). It means that no matter how we feel about it, we are highly unlikely to live until we die in the house we currently live in. So, build something more marketable. If you don't put in a dishwasher, at least make sure there is plumbing for it and space under the counter. If you think you don't need a shower (and that you'll put in a outdoor tub later once construction is finished -- as we thought and never did) consider that that is extremely unusual in houses in the resale market. If you have thought of all that and still like the idea, consider that when you do eventually have to move, and cannot sell the house, you will be a landlord. If you have never done that, ask people who have what it is like. I personally would rather get a root canal than be a landlord, and am constantly trying to convince my wife that we should just send back the keys to the bank.
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unstoppable says
Thanks for the tip. Even if I don't buy an old house, (which is my first choice), I love reading and talking about this stuff.
You're lucky to have scored a church. Some of the most interesting architectural flourishes can be found in old churches.
I'm sensitive to architecture myself. Ever since I was a kid, I felt instantly 'at home' in a 30's type structure than, say, an 80's type. Beyond differences in material and layout, stuff used to be drafted by hand with a T-Square and a triangle and I think that approach imparted what I perceive to be a more soulful sensibility to the final product.
I think good architecture can have a palliative if not healing effect on a lot of what ails you. I sense that much of the public, however, is inured to bad looking architecture, and it's a real shame. They should be more pissed off about it! This crap is competing with nature! My feeling is, it had better be goddamn good looking in order to justify slabbing over whatever patch of grass or whatever tree was felled for its sake!
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oliverks1 says
I can tell you this: when I was on assignment in Florida during the hurricanes of 2004, the houses and buildings from the thirties were the only ones that didn't have massive damage and blue tarps draped over their roofs for months on end.
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Austinhousingbubble says
Smart move. Having a professional to check the lot out for you is key. I'm not sure what grade of slope you're checking out, but I had looked at a hillside property (30-45 degrees), pretty steep, and it was going to cost about $1,000,000 just to put pylons 20 feet down to lock the foundation and house into place.
Oh, and if you're in a relationship, be prepared for the stresses that may come with building. Other than that, I say go for it!!
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Roslyn, NY
Please stop thinking. Just get a mortgage and buy what a realtor says is good for you.
Now be a good sheep and stop looking at the numbers. Just drink the bankers' & realtors' kool aid.
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Not me -- I'm trying to find a workaround to all that shit. I'd end up doing as much of the work myself as possible, including drafting a rough of the layout.
I share in your sarcastic invective, (in fact, I think you're leasing the rights from me), but at some point, I need a stable little shed where I can live and work and have nervous breakdowns and play a timpani at 3AM. Can I do this in my little 850 sq ft puke green junkie hovel? Yes, I can, but I think there's a real argument to be made against stuffing thousands of dollars into my landlord's fat little hands every year while my savings is thwacked away at by the Fed. It's actually all of the overnight landlord/investor dorks on here that have put a fire under my ass in recent years. If you think there aren't special interests involved in the argument for renting vs buying, then you need to take a closer look.
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If you don't mind paying more for less. Most new homes are built with subpar materials and are prepped to fail as soon as the builder warranty ends.
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StoutFiles says
You're preaching to choir on this one; I am usually the lone voice in the gale when it comes to how superior the materials were that went into house construction 50-100 years ago. They look better and age better, too, so they're even more gratifying to restore than anything I see being built today. This is true of a lot of - if indeed not most - manufactured durables. Bearing this in mind, I wouldn't plan on being hands-off-head-up-the-ass on any aspect of the building process. I wouldn't build something that looked good new but aged like shit.
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Taint Boil says
No, it wasn't. You don't have much of an imagination if that is all that comes to mind with a 1/1.
It was on a steeply sloped lot with magnificent views of the mountains; the house very cleverly takes advantage of the way the light changes; incorporates outdoor spaces beautifully; the 'flow' of the house as one moves through it... This may all be unimportant to you (or others) but we felt since we were going to be living there for the rest of our lives (turned out to be very untrue) and because we had lived in various other countries with very distinct and beautiful architectures, we wanted to try for something more than a "24x24".
We gained an appreciation for what is required to create something unique and beautiful, and for why most of what is built here is neither.
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First go to your county building dept. & get all their info on required permits.If this doesn't discourage you ask for a reference to someone that has recently built a home from scratch & ask them what it was like.
Building on raw land is at least twice as complicated as buying a fixer & redoing it to suit yourself. An existing house has all the utilities & site permits in place. It is easier to get a loan for a remodel vs a new home. And your building pace can be less strenuous.
I like the suggestion of buying a small church. But only if you are also starting your own religion. This would get you a new career, new house & maybe a tax write off too!!
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Austinhousingbubble says
BS. There were plenty of sub standard houses built 50-100 years ago. Most have fallen down by now. I've done a lot of remodeling. Undersize joists, no headers, out of square, the list goes on and on were pretty standard in the day. Drywall is far superior to plaster in many respects, fiberglass beats the shit out of corncobs and bricks for insulation, plywood is much better than boards for sheathing (don't accept osb), flashing and waterproofing materials are very good and simply didn't exist 100 years ago, double pane glass, etc.etc..
I like old houses, have owned a bunch, and done a lot of remodeling. But, builders 100 years ago were far from gods. Some were good, some were pretty crappy. Same with materials. No different today.
There is no reason whatsoever you can't get a very good house today. You just have to insist on using quality materials and monitoring the project. People who want the biggest house for the lowest price get what they pay for.
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Corning, NY
Premium
It seems like almost everything made today is shit. All that matters is next quarter's profits.
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Never Trust Realtors says
Care to expound upon that? I would appreciate your thoughtful input.
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The cost of engineering and utilities for the sloping lot can be very expensive. Get this firmly set up before buying the lot.
As per the previous post, build a marketable house. You just don't know what will happen in the future.
Two options to consider other than traditional contractor stick built house.
1. Move an existing house onto the lot.Usually you can pick up a house that's pretty close to what you want and remodel it to the way you want it for a lot less than building. I'm doing this as we type with a historic home. Even with new plumbing and electric I couldn't come any where close on price if I were looking to buy an equivalent house. Look under house movers in the yellow pages.
2. Prefab. Not a trailer, a house build in parts and assembled on sight. Don't let the negative image of prefabs turn you off. There are a lot of good prefab builders. The advantages are big. You have plans that have been built thousands of times so they are proven. A one time design by an architect may or may not be very good. The house sections are built in a factory in jigs, not by guys working in the mud on a job site who may or may not be hung over. Quality control is very good for the reputable companies. Usually you can do mild custumization to the plans. The big outfits have tremendous buying power that a local contractor cant' touch for materials.
Anyway if I were building a new house from the ground up I would go prefab and use a good part of the savings over stick built to upgrade materials and appliances.
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bob2356 says
No first hand experience but I have also heard good things about this from smart people with first hand experience, for all the reasons bob2356 mentions. Don't discard this option out of hand.
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Portland, OR
Buy a small church, sell the pews, now you've got a big box.
That was my solution, except i'm adding all the fabulous of loft style living.
A note of caution a church isn't a house so financing can be challenging, best to have all cash.
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unstoppable says
Fabulousness was tongue-in-cheek. In fact, I love the idea of living in what amounts to a glorified dojo, I just dont' want to pay the attendant premium for such a thing having been packaged and marketed to me.
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beentheredonethat says
Excellent input here, which echoes many of my own reservations. I know most folks want the 3/2 2 car garage deal -- I drafted a layout where, in a pinch, you could throw up some drywall and voilà -- 3/2 -- or at any rate, 3/1.5. In fact, one of the spaces I have as a media room could easily be a kids room.
One of the the things I want to get away from is moving every couple of years. I know I only have so much control over that, (as much as I do anything, really), but it really hampers me and my work. Also, I have a feeling this will be less of a dynamic for the American middle class going forward. I could be wrong, but I think the opposite assumes a return to ladder buying, which I don't think we'll see as much of for at least a generation or so.
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bob2356 says
Excellent points. I am concerned about the sloping lot, especially since it's pretty steep. I'm not even sure it's feasible, (though I've seen some conceptual workarounds to slopes), and even if it is, how much more it would add to the final total. That said, it's significantly cheaper and larger (private) than other lots I was looking at, and more centrally located. In a way, despite being impractical, it's also kinda...badass. It backs to a greenbelt, so whatever you build there would enjoy something of a tree house effect. Of course, in drought prone central Texas, it could also get gobbled up in a wildfire.
RE: prefab -- I have looked into those, and I see no stigma whatsoever. There are some damn fine looking models out there these days. I think financing might be a little tricky, though. If I were to go the prefab route, I think I'd be better off finding a more level lot.
As for future shock, this does figure into my own reservations. However, lately, I feel as though perhaps I hedge just a little too much. I'm also not sure how uncertain future pitfalls figure any more or less into buying a pre-existing shack.
BTW - if I could find a house worth moving, I would certainly go that route.
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Portland, OR
Austinhousingbubble says
I'm installing radient heat, that way you heat the zone not the entire space.
Austinhousingbubble says
Old houses are built with beautiful dimensional old growth timber, however the foundations can be crap. They just hadn't figured out concrete a hundred years ago. "Renovating Old Houses" by George Nash is a good primer on what to look out for.