A New Perspective On The Atomic Bomb And Japan
invite response
2024 May 8, 10:10pm 220 views 12 comments
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2
richwicks
2024 May 9, 9:39am
richwicks
2024 May 9, 9:39am
ohomen171 says
What hypocrisy. The US is questioning if islands in the South CHINA sea are actually Chinese.
Every once in awhile, Russia lets everyone know it's still pissed off about via it petty land claims against Japan.
What hypocrisy. The US is questioning if islands in the South CHINA sea are actually Chinese.
3
HeadSet
2024 May 9, 11:44am
HeadSet
2024 May 9, 11:44am
richwicks says
?? Lots of islands in "The South China Sea" are Vietnamese or Philippine owned.
The US is questioning if islands in the South CHINA sea are actually Chinese.
?? Lots of islands in "The South China Sea" are Vietnamese or Philippine owned.
4
AmericanKulak
2024 May 9, 12:08pm
AmericanKulak
2024 May 9, 12:08pm
Tojo was out in 1944, replaced with Suzuki, he too began arming for home defense, to make every housing block a bunker.
AFTER the first bomb, Japan did not surrender. The Government believed the US could only make one bomb a year at most.
Then, the Soviets invaded Manchuria. Still, the government sucked down the copium and believed the Chinese would fight the Russians harder than the Japanese would and started mass arming the same population they just total disarmed and did plague testing on.
Then, a bomb was dropped on Nagasaki.
FINALLY, the Emperor considered surrender and the government finally drafted surrender terms. That night, a group of officers with over 1000 soldiers took NHK staff hostage in the Imperial Palace and began a fruitless search to sieze the Surrender Rescript in an attempt to stop the Emperor from reading and broadcasting it.
ohomen171 says
No. The Tojo regime came to power with over a decade of assassinations. Yamamoto himself had to live on a Battleship to avoid assassination over the 5:5:3 Pact, despite it being a massive WIN for Japan (UK/US have multiple oceans, Japan only the WestPac, so the balance favored Japan). Assassinations were happening in 44-45 to kill Cabinet members, including reknowned military generals, who called for surrender terms or advised the Emperor so.
Only because (Tanaka?) was able to marshal a force were the Fanatics stopped and the Emperor's Script read. And he had to appeal that the Emperor was being held hostage in order to get enough junior officers to agree and keep the contents of the rescript FROM them.
That's how deep the Fanaticism was - 2 Atom Bombs and Russia's entrance into the war, all within a few weeks, and still there were attempts to prevent the Emperor from Surrendering.
The Demoralized don't do an examination, they push their Internalized Lefism of "US Always Bad" narrative.
Many groups, not just the Far Left, love the Internalized Leftism as it finally gives them a gap to 'recommend' various Theocratic Monarchies and other nonsense
AFTER the first bomb, Japan did not surrender. The Government believed the US could only make one bomb a year at most.
Then, the Soviets invaded Manchuria. Still, the government sucked down the copium and believed the Chinese would fight the Russians harder than the Japanese would and started mass arming the same population they just total disarmed and did plague testing on.
Then, a bomb was dropped on Nagasaki.
FINALLY, the Emperor considered surrender and the government finally drafted surrender terms. That night, a group of officers with over 1000 soldiers took NHK staff hostage in the Imperial Palace and began a fruitless search to sieze the Surrender Rescript in an attempt to stop the Emperor from reading and broadcasting it.
ohomen171 says
And after some infighting and a very brief coup attempt, they promptly did. A complete and total surrender.
No. The Tojo regime came to power with over a decade of assassinations. Yamamoto himself had to live on a Battleship to avoid assassination over the 5:5:3 Pact, despite it being a massive WIN for Japan (UK/US have multiple oceans, Japan only the WestPac, so the balance favored Japan). Assassinations were happening in 44-45 to kill Cabinet members, including reknowned military generals, who called for surrender terms or advised the Emperor so.
Only because (Tanaka?) was able to marshal a force were the Fanatics stopped and the Emperor's Script read. And he had to appeal that the Emperor was being held hostage in order to get enough junior officers to agree and keep the contents of the rescript FROM them.
That's how deep the Fanaticism was - 2 Atom Bombs and Russia's entrance into the war, all within a few weeks, and still there were attempts to prevent the Emperor from Surrendering.
The Demoralized don't do an examination, they push their Internalized Lefism of "US Always Bad" narrative.
Many groups, not just the Far Left, love the Internalized Leftism as it finally gives them a gap to 'recommend' various Theocratic Monarchies and other nonsense
5
richwicks
2024 May 9, 12:22pm
richwicks
2024 May 9, 12:22pm
HeadSet says
Everything was cashed out at the end of world war 2. We are just once again violating our agreements. Remember when the US kept running their navy there?
Why can't you see the pattern. US falsely accuses country of something, they keep lying for years, finally it creates a war.
Iraq, Syria, Libya, Russia, and now China.
I am fucking tired of this shit.
richwicks says
The US is questioning if islands in the South CHINA sea are actually Chinese.
?? Lots of islands in "The South China Sea" are Vietnamese or Philippine owned.
Everything was cashed out at the end of world war 2. We are just once again violating our agreements. Remember when the US kept running their navy there?
Why can't you see the pattern. US falsely accuses country of something, they keep lying for years, finally it creates a war.
Iraq, Syria, Libya, Russia, and now China.
I am fucking tired of this shit.
6
richwicks
2024 May 9, 12:29pm
richwicks
2024 May 9, 12:29pm
AmericanKulak says
Japan tried to surrender multiple times before the bombs were dropped. The US wouldn't accept it unless it was totally unconditional. Their condition was don't kill the emperor which is what the US agreed to anyhow
If the US wanted surrender, they have dropped the bomb on Tokyo. The bomb was new tech and there were already plans to start the Cold war with the USSR. This was a human test, and was designed to show the world we had the bomb.
FINALLY, the Emperor considered surrender and the government finally drafted surrender terms.
Japan tried to surrender multiple times before the bombs were dropped. The US wouldn't accept it unless it was totally unconditional. Their condition was don't kill the emperor which is what the US agreed to anyhow
If the US wanted surrender, they have dropped the bomb on Tokyo. The bomb was new tech and there were already plans to start the Cold war with the USSR. This was a human test, and was designed to show the world we had the bomb.
7
HeadSet
2024 May 9, 5:24pm
HeadSet
2024 May 9, 5:24pm
richwicks says
I disagree strongly with that. I am very well read on this era. The Japanese were not going to surrender, they wanted a peace deal where they returned conquered territories but Japan itself would be left as it was.
richwicks says
No, it was done to win a very high casualty war. Before the atomic bombing, the US was expecting a drawn out invasion of Japan with over a million US casualties. "Bread line in '49" was the catch phrase.
Japan tried to surrender multiple times before the bombs were dropped. The US wouldn't accept it unless it was totally unconditional. Their condition was don't kill the emperor which is what the US agreed to anyhow
I disagree strongly with that. I am very well read on this era. The Japanese were not going to surrender, they wanted a peace deal where they returned conquered territories but Japan itself would be left as it was.
richwicks says
This was a human test, and was designed to show the world we had the bomb.
No, it was done to win a very high casualty war. Before the atomic bombing, the US was expecting a drawn out invasion of Japan with over a million US casualties. "Bread line in '49" was the catch phrase.
8
richwicks
2024 May 9, 6:44pm
richwicks
2024 May 9, 6:44pm
HeadSet says
Then why were the bombs dropped on cities that had no military value and were in pristine condition never having being bombed before?
They were dropped to study the effects.
No, it was done to win a very high casualty war.
Then why were the bombs dropped on cities that had no military value and were in pristine condition never having being bombed before?
They were dropped to study the effects.
9
HeadSet
2024 May 9, 7:03pm
HeadSet
2024 May 9, 7:03pm
richwicks says
Nonsense. The second atomic was done over Nagasaki because the original planned target was clouded over. Tokyo was spared because the government was needed to be intact to surrender.
Then why were the bombs dropped on cities that had no military value and were in pristine condition never having being bombed before?
They were dropped to study the effects.
Nonsense. The second atomic was done over Nagasaki because the original planned target was clouded over. Tokyo was spared because the government was needed to be intact to surrender.
10
richwicks
2024 May 9, 7:10pm
richwicks
2024 May 9, 7:10pm
HeadSet says
Neither city was ever touched before. Neither had military value.
The problem is "oh people wouldn't be that ruthless, that inhumane, just i.possible" but they are.
After they dropped the bomb our government spent 40 years threatening to start a nuclear war with the USSR to terrorize the American population. When the USSR collapsed they were caught off guard and we a had a full decade of tremendous growth. Oh the horror of that!!
Well they couldn't be allowed, so the started the war on terror which is again the war on us.
Nonsense. The second atomic was done over Nagasaki because the original planned target was clouded over. Tokyo was spared because the government was needed to be intact to surrender
Neither city was ever touched before. Neither had military value.
The problem is "oh people wouldn't be that ruthless, that inhumane, just i.possible" but they are.
After they dropped the bomb our government spent 40 years threatening to start a nuclear war with the USSR to terrorize the American population. When the USSR collapsed they were caught off guard and we a had a full decade of tremendous growth. Oh the horror of that!!
Well they couldn't be allowed, so the started the war on terror which is again the war on us.
11
RayAmerica
2024 May 10, 8:09am
RayAmerica
2024 May 10, 8:09am
History is always written by the victors, and we already know how much we can totally trust our Government. And really, really, really ... we did not know in advance that Japan was going to attack us at Pearl Harbor, and that Japan's attack would be used as the 'back door' into the European War that FDR wanted all along ....
12
richwicks
2024 May 10, 8:35am
richwicks
2024 May 10, 8:35am
RayAmerica says
Just like we ended up with the Pearl Harbor type event to set off 25 years of useless wars in the Middle East from the Project for the New American Century in their little screed Rebuilding America's Defenses written by William Kristol and Robert Kagan - the husband of Victoria Nuland, the monster that helped coup Ukraine and throw that nation into 20 years of war.
https://archive.org/details/RebuildingAmericasDefenses
Page 51, first full paragraph, this was published on September 10, 2000.
They got exactly what they needed by coincidence 366 days later. What luck! If I was more of a suspicious person, I would think the US government was somehow involved with 9/11, but that can't be, they found a completely perfectly intact passport from one of the terrorists a few blocks away. How can I question that?
They goddamned tell you what they are going to do, and most of these "people" around me don't believe it. When they are caught red handed in the act, unless the propaganda box claims it's true, and you merely have the damned evidence that proves, that's not evidence enough..
History is always written by the victors, and we already know how much we can totally trust our Government. And really, really, really ... we did not know in advance that Japan was going to attack us at Pearl Harbor, and that Japan's attack would be used as the 'back door' into the European War that FDR wanted all along ....
Just like we ended up with the Pearl Harbor type event to set off 25 years of useless wars in the Middle East from the Project for the New American Century in their little screed Rebuilding America's Defenses written by William Kristol and Robert Kagan - the husband of Victoria Nuland, the monster that helped coup Ukraine and throw that nation into 20 years of war.
https://archive.org/details/RebuildingAmericasDefenses
Page 51, first full paragraph, this was published on September 10, 2000.
Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and industrial policy will shape the pace and content of transformation as much as the requirements of current missions. A decision to suspend or terminate aircraft carrier production, as recommended by this report and as justified by the clear direction of military technology, will cause great upheaval. Likewise, systems entering production today - the F-22 fighter, for example - will be in service inventories for decades to come. Wise management of this process will consist in large measure of figuring out the right moments to halt production of current-paradigm weapons and shift to radically new designs. The expense associated with some programs can make them roadblocks to the larger process of transformation - the Joint Strike Fighter program, at a total of approximately $200 billion, seems an unwise investment. Thus, this report advocates a two-stage process of change - transition and transformation over the coming decades.
They got exactly what they needed by coincidence 366 days later. What luck! If I was more of a suspicious person, I would think the US government was somehow involved with 9/11, but that can't be, they found a completely perfectly intact passport from one of the terrorists a few blocks away. How can I question that?
They goddamned tell you what they are going to do, and most of these "people" around me don't believe it. When they are caught red handed in the act, unless the propaganda box claims it's true, and you merely have the damned evidence that proves, that's not evidence enough..
Brandon Ross
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J.D. from Western Michigan University (Graduated 2007)Mar 4
Say hypothetically that the Japanese government in August 1945 said that they would never give up, no matter how many atomic bombs dropped, and were would risk the eradication of Japan as a country. How would the invasion of Japan be in this case?
Say hypothetically that the Japanese government in August 1945 said that they would never give up, no matter how many atomic bombs dropped, and were would risk the eradication of Japan as a country.
Hypothetically?
No, that actually happened.
When the atomic bombs were dropped, the Imperial Japanese government sent some people out to investigate. Government officials in Tokyo didn't know there were atomic bombs. Just that the Americans had bombed something like… their 23rd city.
So they looked, shrugged, and, “Yep. It's some kind of new bomb. Not that important. Let the Japanese people suffer the bombings. The Japanese people will do anything to save their Emperor.”
How would the invasion of Japan be in this case?
Russia would say, “Well. Time to go to war against Japan. Let's start doing that…” And then make a break for the coast, retaking all of the strategic gains that Japan had taken on the mainland.
And then they would start planning their invasion of Northern Japan. In a desperate race to seize Japan and Tokyo before the Americans could invade.
And then Japan's military council looked around, and some of them said, “The Soviets are about to hit the mainland from the North. And once they do, things are going to get very hard very quickly. And we can't fight them off forever. When they finally get to Tokyo, they're going to kill everyone—including the Emperor. And not getting him killed is pretty much our only goal.”
Which led to a very quick solution:
“We better surrender to the Americans.”
And after some infighting and a very brief coup attempt, they promptly did. A complete and total surrender.
Except for one teeny-tiny, itty-bitty, most-humble ask from Japan: the emperor gets to stick around.
Every once in awhile, Russia lets everyone know it's still pissed off about via it petty land claims against Japan.
(Note: when I say Americans here, I mean that Western coalition. Yes the Americans were most prominent. But there were other soldiers, sailors, and Marines who fought as well.)
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